Character Death: when to warn?

[runespoor]

Okay, so I was thinking about the Andromeda Table and I wondered... What does "Character Death" means, exactly? So yes, someone dies. But when do you warn for character death?... All of this is, of course, purely hypothetical.

Say it's a Blaise/Pansy fic in which Sirius falls through the veil. He's not important to the main pairing, but he matters to the reader of the books, so do you mark character death? Say the fic is Remus/Sirius - do you warn for character death or do you assumes the reader knew what he was in from?

Do you warn for death if it's canon death? If it's AU but the character died in canon anyway? For any character - disregarding his or her importance in the fic and/or the original material? Do you take the "character death" warning to means only the mains characters of the fic?

Do you warn for death if the character comes back, for instance as a ghost? Is it any different if he or she is somehow brought back to life, or if they appear as an Inferi, or as a vampire, or as a portrait, or as something like Riddle's diary?

Personally, I take "character death" to mean that I'd better not get too attached to the main characters of the piece, because one of them is going to eat it. Then again, I like a warning if the SO of the main character of the fic is already dead. And I think "character death" is not too much to ask when half the wizarding world as we know it bites it in a final battle of any sort. It's all very relative, I suppose.

Please comment, I'd love to read your input.

Comments

[mimine.livejournal.com]

I'd warn for non canon death of main character in the fic. That's it.

[quivo.livejournal.com]

I'd warn for main character dying or already dead. If, however, the fact that a character is or is not dead is part of the plot or something, then the readers are on their own.

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

As a reader, do you like being warned? And what's you incentive as a writer, when you put that warning? But yeah, it seems to be the way the warning works in most of the fics.

[luciademedici.livejournal.com]

Never! It may be rude, it may be underhanded, but it gives a much stronger jolt to the reader when it happens.

Labelling something "dark" more or less takes care of that, for me at least. I like expecting something bad will happen, but I'd rather not know what that'll be specifically.

[aquahaute.livejournal.com]

Sweet icon.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I hate warnings for character death. Lessens the impact. But I do include it sometimes (because it's expected) and often it will draw me into reading a fic if I see it on another's headings (am angst slut). I'll say that there's just SO MUCH out there in HP fandom that it's reasonable to have it in the headings, because fanfiction is aimed at a "do you want to read specifically THIS?" audience.

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

I prefer to enter the story unspoiled myself, for the opposite reasons, actually - if I know a character dies, I'm much more like to pass up on a good story simply because it's character death. If I hadn't known it, I'd prbably have read it and then be depressed for a few hours, but with a good story in mind, if you see what I mean. *this person hasn't gathered the courage the read Beautiful Day for a Picnic yet.*

But I'm not sure whether it lessens the impact - it lessens the shock, but when you read Romeo and Juliet, do you feel less sad because you know what's going to happen? The emotion is still there, it's just playing on the level of irony rather than shock.

[grasshopper.livejournal.com]

I hate warning for character death but, in the beginning, I always did so. Then I went back and stripped the warning off of every character death fic, except for the one in which everybody dies in a painful way, in quick succession -- in such an excessive case I figured it was kinder of me to let people know what they were in for. And if a death is by suicide, I might also consider warning for that, since it's a sensitive topic. But usually I like deaths to be a surprise, both to my readers and when I'm reading someone else's story.

I think the character death warning does the biggest disservice to those stories where the author is good and subtle enough to foreshadow the death early on without quite giving it away. In those fics, the warning lessens the suspense.

[luciademedici.livejournal.com]

Amen. If anything, more people should assume this line of thinking when dealing with darker material because it’s meant to evoke a strong response in the reader. Why dilute the gut reaction?

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I don't like warnings period, but some comms/archives require them. In that case, I put a note that warnings are at the end of the fic, or else put the warnings under a cut tag with spoiler space. This way those who need warnings can click, and those who prefer not to be spoiled, don't have to be. However, on my own website, I don't warn for anything.

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

So you warn for possible warnings?... It's a happy middle-ground, I think, though I never really saw the point of putting the warnings at the end of the fic. But of course, what archives require...

[rlginny.livejournal.com]

I didn't warn. I created an AU where I "predicted" (I never claimed I actually *thought* it would happen, just that was how I was writing it) where every Weasley but Ginny, every Order memeber, Hermione, Harry, Neville, most everyone that is a central main character other than Ginny and Luna died. Horribly.

Didn't warn a damn soul.

I don't think there should be warnings. As someone said "dark" is enough. But if you absolutely feel like you have to sometimes, I would say warn if what you consider to be one of the main characters that has not yet died in canon kicks it.

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

Dark is good.

When I wrote my own dystopia, with Severus Snape, Andromeda Black, Nymphadora Tonks-as-impersonating-Narcissa-Malfoy as the survivors, along with a Remus who was drugged to the eyeballs, I didn't put any warning for death either. When it's dark, well, you know what you're going to find. (Now, I can't remember if I warned for dark at all...)

[myuglyone.livejournal.com]

Here from DS, and thought I'd throw my two cents in. I'm not a writer, but I'm an avid reader, and I find warnings, most importantly for character death (which I take to mean when one of the main characters in the pairing dies - although it's a kindness if someone warns for "non main-character death" if someone else really important to the main character(s) dies) absolutely 100% crucial. Particularly in well-written fics, I get very involved with the characters, and am absolutely devastated when someone bites it and I wasn't expecting it. I will literally cry and feel depressed for hours, and that's not what I'm looking for personally when I read slash. Not warning for character death in a well-written fic that sucks you in leaves me hurt and angry. This means that it does provoke a strong response in me, which seems to be what some of the above authors are looking for. But it leaves me rather unhappy, and I might avoid that author in the future.

I might make an exception for (properly-warned for) "darkfic", where it's expected that nasty things and death are par for the course, and one knows not to get too attached to anything or anyone. I generally don't read darkfics, and am therefore grateful when the hardcore stuff is warned for and I can avoid that fic (unless it comes highly recommended of course). Things like heavy BDSM, particularly D/s, can also be squicky for me, and it's always useful for me to know in advance if those things are in a fic (and I would think it would also be useful for someone looking specifically for the dark stuff to have it in the summary). And there are some things which are too sensitive to not be warned for, such as self-harm, suicide, rape, child abuse - not doing so and thus potentially thrusting a sensitive reader into an emotional tailspin would be nothing short of cruel, in my opinion.

I realize that not warning makes for a bigger impact on the reader, but some of us are not anxious to be plunged into emotional extremes of shock and despair when we just want to read a really great fic. There are some unbelievable stories which have character death and are not "dark" (Cinnamon's Beautiful World (http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/Cinnamon/Beautiful_World/) comes to mind), and which can be outstanding and moving to read as long as one is prepared. I just ask authors to give me the option. Someone above mentioned putting warnings behind a cut, and that would be fine with me - as long as the warning is there somewhere, I'm happy. In addition, there's a lot of fic out there to sort through, and the warnings are usually infinitely more useful than the plot summaries to let the reader know what kind of fic they're getting into. I hate wasting hours wading through a fic which ends in character death when I wanted a happy ending.

Just one reader's humble opinion; don't mean to offend.

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

Hey, opinion, when it's stated calmly and with all the proper disclaimer that it's only one's opinion blablabla, can never offend. :)

I understand exactly where you come from. On the other hand, I know I've passed up highly recommended fics myself because of their warning for character death. I think warnings behind a cut are cool too, because it leaves me the choice whether I'll take a risk or not. I don't have the emotional resilience to go into a fic when I know the main character is going to kick it, I simply can't. On the whole, I think I'd rather be caught by surprise, and be depressed afterwards - at least that way I can go and comfort myself with nice humourous fluff.

Personally, I find that warning for dark covers it nicely while remaining vaguer. In a way, it allows for more hope than deathfic. And the warnings-behind-a-cut. Otherwise, I find that telling me a character is going to die takes the choice away from me: I'm not going to read it.

Thanks for you input!

Re: Here via d_s

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but that's just it with character death: I won't read a fic, no matter how recommended it is, if I know a character dies. Now, if I didn't, maybe I'd find out for myself and either be really depressed at the end or hit the back button, but I'd made a try. After all, there's always humorous fluff to comfort oneself afterwards.

If, on the other hand, a fic is labelled dark, well... It gives more hope to the reader, in a way. You can imagine a world in which Voldemort/the Ministry/the Muggles have won and where your pairing of choice can still adapt. It will be long and unrewarding and they'll be very, very disgusted with themselves, but they will have survived.

Well, most fics don't have all that many characters to begin with. Often, the plot revolves around a pairing, with cameos from family, friends, mentors etc, but the main characters are clearly defined. And from what other people answered, they're likely to warn for character death only if it's one of these 2 main characters who dies. *shrugs* The danger of romance-oriented fics...

[gnomad.livejournal.com]

Hi there! Here via daily_snitch.

I was originally going to post something that essentially said, Bah! Warnings? Who needs them! But after thinking about it a little more, I decided that I'm ambivalent about the issue.

On the one hand, I firmly believe that fandom is far too indulgent in regards to warnings (all warnings, not just character death). When we read published fiction we don't get this kind of hand-holding. We might be able to glean some information from a synopsis or review, but no one puts explicit warnings on their title page. It would just be...weird. Instead we're sort of left to muddle through the book on our own and we are forced to either take whatever the author gives us or stop reading. Hence, it sort of galls me a bit when people get so upset over not being warned about a particular thing in fan fiction (and I've seen it with situations other than character death as well).

On the other hand, fandom isn't professionally published fiction and, like amanuensis said in her comments, our audience is often so attuned to finding one particular sort of fan fic that people don't like it when they unwittingly start reading outside of their comfort level. Also, as much as I like being shocked by character death stories, there are certain days or times when I'm just not in the mood for it. Warnings help me sort through fiction and put aside fics that I know I'll be more receptive to if I read them at a later time.

In conclusion... meh. *shrugs*

[gnomad.livejournal.com]

amanuensis1. 1, I always forget about the 1.

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

:)

In conclusion... meh. *shrugs*

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about the whole issue. I might make a case for warning for dark, though, because it covers a lot of ground without being spoileringly precise, as there are as many definitions of darkness as there are fans, and at the same time, it leaves more hope - it's dark, but you don't know for sure what's going to happen.

And shock isn't the only way to look at character-death: it can also be slow-building impending-doom like irony, in which case warning for death really is your friend...

About other warnings: as much as I don't know how I feel about character deaths, as much I know I want to be warned if there's major BDSM, non-con, chan, self-harm in a fic. (The first holding no allure to me, the second being a squick, the third something I'm only ready to read a few select times in a year, and the fourth, in a sweeping generalisation, a mark of badfics.)

[issen4.livejournal.com]

I tend to say "Mention of death".

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

Hmm... Yeah, that's clever. *takes note*

[sea-of-tethys.livejournal.com]

I never see the point of warning for character death. Isn't it just a great big spoiler? It's only a fic, people can handle it.

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

Well, sometimes a writer can play on the feeling of irony and imprending doom that comes with knowing a character will die rather than with shock. Also, fanfic is very much audience-oriented, so I suppose it's considered better form to let people know what kind of story it is, see if they want or don't want to read it.

[magicicada.livejournal.com]

I like getting attached to characters in fic, and if knowing they're going to die could lessen that attachment, I'd rather not know from the beginning-- yeah it hurts, but it can make the fic much more effective. The opposite is true for me as well. I’ve read fics with warnings like, ‘Scary, but don’t worry no one dies’ and I’m less relieved at the end than I would have been if I thought a death might really happen. I think warnings for darkfic or dark themes serve well enough or summaries that make it known that bad things could potentially happen.

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

I agree with that. Looks like warning for dark or dark themes is the consensus then, which is weird when you realise how many fics are out there with a warning for death.

Here via the Snitch

[trobadora]

I like knowing in advance what I'm going to get into. I like being completely spoiled before I read something. So naturally I like the fanfic convention of warnings, especially for something of importance in the fic. (If it's only mentioned in passing I really don't care.)

Re: Here via the Snitch

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, can't the warning for death be a deterrent? I know it's that way for me. I might read a fic labelled dark; I won't touch character death.

As a reader I want character death warnings.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't expect them for original fiction, but I absolutely do expect them for fanfiction. I come to fanfiction already 100% attached to the characters and their world. I wouldn't be reading anyone's fanfiction, no matter how great, otherwise. I come to it already knowing who my favorite characters are, and if you vary from canon, I usually prefer that my favorites get a better deal from you than they did from their creator.

If a character I love is going to be killed off in your story, I'd like to know, regardless if s/he is the main character in your story or not, or if s/he were killed in canon or not. I'm not going to assume, for instance, that Sirius is going to die in your story because: 1. You could be writing about Sirius's youth, or about a small slice of time that does not lead up to his death. 2. You may be one of those wonderful authors who ignore his death.

Also, even if Blaise is the main character of your story, and Remus isn't, Remus fans are legion. It'd be nice to know he'd be killed off.

I've written fan fiction too, so I understand what you all are saying about not wanting to lose the dramatic impact of your story due to the necessity of warnings. I just think death is far too easy a way to get dramatic impact, and not the most interesting way to achieve dramatic impact.

Even in the wellspring of your current fanfiction, Harry Potter, it isn't death or torture per say that has the emotional impact, but the consequences of those deaths. James and Lily's deaths pervade the whole series, but we don't think of the moment of their deaths do we? We think of how horrible it is that Harry has to live with the Dursleys; and how horrible it is that Sirius got convicted for crimes he didn't commit, and spend 12 years in a hellish prison, and never got to grow up really, because he was always on the run, and a physical and mental wreck from that point onward. We don't think of the murder that Tom Riddle committed, and for which he had Hagrid take the fall. We think of how Hagrid lost his opportunity to be a full fledged wizard, and how he has to hide his wand in a pink umbrella, and live in a hut.

As for missing a good story because of a warning, I'd rather do that, than deeply resent not being warned for a character death. I read fan fiction with far different expectations than I do of books of original fiction and if an author varies from canon, I usually prefer my favorite characters to get a better deal from a fan fiction author than they did at their creator's hand.

Anyway, that's why I prefer to be warned. Your mileage may vary.

[megselv.livejournal.com]

(here via metafandom)

I used to think "professional fiction doesn't warn, so fic warnings are stupid." But I realised I was wrong.
When I read a book, I generally have an idea in advance if it's going to be ...tragedy!
For fic, readers expect warnings. If the fic loses a lot of it's impact if there are warnings, it's maybe not so good in the first place?

For example, I read a fic where Harry dies unexpectedly.
The plot is very simple: Harry finds out he's destined to die at a certain day, but his lover saves him. Heh.
But then there's a twist! Noone finds a solution, so suddenly he dies, the End.
No warning. Apparently the author (and others?) thought that made the fic brilliant -- I don't agree.

For fic that is supposed to be very dark, specific warnings for death aren't necessary.
But if I'm reading something that looks like the usual hurt/ comfort fare, I don't enjoy it if the last paragraph surprises me by turning it into la Traviata... :P

[iamrosalita.livejournal.com]

Got here from Metafandom. Hi.

I hate being warned for character death. I don't want to spend the entire story wondering who's going to die and when. I want to be surprised.

As a writer, I've written three stories in which a major character dies. I've warned for one, but not the other two. I warned for the first one because a) it was required and b) the reader would know by the the second paragraph that the character was dead so there was no real reason not to warn.

The other two stories hinged on the death being a surprise; so I didn't warn for the deat. I used a "Disturbing Content" warning. That seemed to be enough since no one complained.

Of course, all these stories were written for X-Files fandom which, back then anyway, tended to be rather dark. And death stories were not uncommon.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Personally I warn only for non-canon death. I figure canon death is covered in the spoiler warning. And only for death of recurring, named canonical characters -- someone who the reader might care about, even if they're not the focus of this particular story. (I write in Buffy/Angel/Firefly fandoms, where you can't get through a single episode without a body count of staked vamps and their victims.)

I think if I wrote something with an original character who was built up to the point where a reader would care about them as a person, I would warn for that death as well, but I don't tend to write OCs, nor AUs.

I think if I did write AUs I would warn for the death of a character who died in canon anyway if the spoiler warning stopped short of that canonical death, since the reader might not know. Or if the death was significantly different than in canon -- especially if it's more on-staged or otherwise traumatizing than the original treatment.

[briarwood.livejournal.com]

As a reader, I've come to hate death warnings. Don't tell me! I don't want to know!

As a writer...

Do you warn for death if it's canon death?

No. If it's AU but the death is the same as or similar to the canon death, I don't warn for that either.

Do you warn for death if the character comes back, for instance as a ghost?

Hm. I don't warn for death if it's a death-and-resurrection. But a ghost is still dead, so maybe. I guess it depends on how much interaction the ghost would get. I wouldn't, for example, put a death warning on a BTVS fic if what I meant was "Character X gets vamped". I would if it was "Character X gets vamped and then staked."

But as a writer I've evolved my own strategy for coping with the "requirement" for such warnings. I'll put the warning on my fic. But, knowing that the reader will know in advance that someone is going to die, I'll try to make it seem as if Character A is going to be the one to bite it, when all the time it's going to be Character B (Or I'll kill someone else early in the story so the reader thinks that's the death referred to in the warning. Or I'll kill both of them *evil laugh*). That way (I hope) the warning doesn't ruin the shock value of the death, while still allowing those who have issues with death fic to avoid my story.

[sieda.livejournal.com]

Slithered in from MetaFandom

This isn't an easy yes have warnings or no don't. As I am sure you know and I really didn't need to state, except it makes me feel all knowledgeable and stuff.

I personally think there should be warnings. In the Harry Potter fandom there are so many stories out there to read that warnings help filter out what you don't want to read at that moment in time. And I know when I am feeling depressed and looking for something that makes my life better in comparison I don't want to end up with a death!fic. (In which, as I say 'death!fic' I actually mean Tragedy. As in the main character dies or all the people around the main character dies leaving him all alone in a very dark world... okay getting a bit carried away here.) Ahem.

I am pretty open to most types of stories, but there are somethings I don't want to read at any time, so I am completely understanding of people who want to avoid death fics completely. For example Harry/Ron. I am sure there are some absolutely gorgeous stories out there of that pairing. Stories that are awe inspiring, make a person feel closer to god, at peace with the world and puts a person in a good mood for a month. I don't care how perfect this story is, I do not want to read it and I don't want to spend 20,000 words in what appears to be a great friendship!fic to have them suddenly taking their relationship in a direction that makes my stomach and mind revolt. I can only imagine that having a character suddenly die would be worse for those that can't stand deathfics.

Then there, of course, is the question of to what extent to warn for. Does a person really need to warn for cannon fodder in a war? I don't really think so. My opinion is to probably warn if it is main characters biting the big one and maybe a secondary character's death if it is more than just a passing mention and the character has a lot of page time.

I think that an author who hates all warnings for their story thinking it ruins it in some way could at least put a "Hey I refuse to warn for anything on principle!" in the warning spot. Placing warnings behind a cut or a link would actually be a cool idea and make everyone happy. That is, of course, as long as no one accidentally peeks and ruins the entire thing on accident.

I sincerely doubt that there will ever be a standard warning or non-warning system for fandom. We are all too different, and with different tastes and have too opinionated by far.

For me personally it doesn't make any difference. If I don't trust the author's warnings or don't like where the story is going I skip to the end to see how it ends anyway. I do that with novels I get from the library, why would I not do it for fanfiction?

So you have now had my less than enlightening opinion forced upon you. My opinions, by the way, should probably have some sort of warning all on their own.

Here via metafandom

[gwynfyd.livejournal.com]

I know that a lot of fans complain about the proliferation of 'warnings' attached to fan fiction. They say that professionally published fiction doesn't carry these warnings.

But there's a major difference between fan fiction and pro fiction. Readers come to fan fiction with deeply ingrained expectations. If I write an original story, about characters I create, my readers don't usually know anything about these characters before they read my story. When I write about Starsky and Hutch, most of my readers have seen the show, and they know what is canon and what is not.

I write Slash, but in canon, Starsky and Hutch weren't lovers. At least on screen. :-))) So, I'm supposed to point out my stories are Slash, lest I upset those readers who insist the guys were 100% straight. I write AUs. In canon, Starsky and Hutch lived in California. If I move them to Victorian England, and don't point out my story is AU, some readers are going to be confused and upset.

At the end of the show's run, all the major characters were still alive. If I kill one or more of them off in a story, I'm going against what is accepted canon. In an original story, I'm the arbiter of canon. But in fan fiction, I'm not. I can change canon if I want, but I should tell people I'm doing it. Yes, it lessens the impact of my story. But so what? If making an impact without warning is so important to me, I should write original fiction. Here, I'm playing around with characters who aren't mine, and who are beloved of many other people.

Via Metafandom

[coneyislandbaby]

I don't warn for canonical death. That's stupid, if you know the canon, you know what happened to the character.

However, I write denial fic for my fandom. I wouldn't warn if I was or wasn't going to kill off the guy in my icon, though in 99.99% of my stories he isn't going to be (there has to be wiggle room for angsty stories), even though he was in canon *hates canon for that*.

I would warn in 99.99% of non-canonical deaths (exceptions, when it's old age and clearly marked/foreshadowed as future fic, stories told from the POV of a ghost where I don't want to say that until the end).

But generally? Character death has never really bothered me. I write fics in which the characters survive and the ptb can't do anything else to them...